Comments on: Farm Apprenticeships: Payment Beyond the Dollar http://civileats.com/2009/09/18/payment-beyond-the-dollar/ Just another WordPress weblog Mon, 13 Feb 2012 13:08:17 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v= By: Donald http://civileats.com/2009/09/18/payment-beyond-the-dollar/comment-page-1/#comment-4087 Donald Sat, 26 Sep 2009 01:02:46 +0000 http://civileats.com/?p=5064#comment-4087 i am more than happy to comment on this topic. So with my first internship last season we all lived on the farm, my fellow intern and I in yomes, farm owners in the house maybe 50 yards from our yomes, and my field manager in a little apartment on the neighboring bit of property. we never addressed the topic of personal space and time it just kind of happened naturally, our respect for each others needs. We would get together for an occasional dinner or lunch but we respected each others personal life. It was weird how it worked out , organically if you will. We were just so indirectly in tune with each others needs that we never really encroached. It was a very positive experience. Living and working together we needed clear communication about what was going on within us which was an amazing experience and I most certainly grew from the experience and created lasting bonds with my fellow intern, field manager, and farm owners. Now my second apprenticeship which i interned right after the first was a bit different. I never really spent time with anyone other than the time spent together while we milked. I focused primarily on animal husbandry, fencing, and tractor work while everyone else partook in the horticultural demands. The individual who i was supposed to be apprenticing, the farm consultant, was opposed to open communication for some reason thus I never really felt like a positive environment existed for me to express my discontent. Unhealthy and bizarre indeed. Bonds were not really made because our focuses were disconnected. As for the living situation all of us who resided on the farm rarely interacted. I would hang out with the farm owner and have great discussions but only a handful of times would i have dinner with the family. Living and working together can either be a blessing or not. I think it's the farm owner's responsibility to define the atmosphere, be it daily lunches or opening up their personal space to the interns. Regardless communication is so valuable in these situations. Everyone needs to express their demands so we are all on same page. A healthy environment needs to exist for concerns or praises or ideas to be expressed. I walked away from both experiences with valuable information about human nature and the way individuals interact. It just has to be a right fit and farmer's/owners who have partaken in internships or apprenticeships have a greater understanding of the dynamics of living and working together in my opinion. Thanks! i am more than happy to comment on this topic. So with my first internship last season we all lived on the farm, my fellow intern and I in yomes, farm owners in the house maybe 50 yards from our yomes, and my field manager in a little apartment on the neighboring bit of property. we never addressed the topic of personal space and time it just kind of happened naturally, our respect for each others needs. We would get together for an occasional dinner or lunch but we respected each others personal life. It was weird how it worked out , organically if you will. We were just so indirectly in tune with each others needs that we never really encroached. It was a very positive experience. Living and working together we needed clear communication about what was going on within us which was an amazing experience and I most certainly grew from the experience and created lasting bonds with my fellow intern, field manager, and farm owners.

Now my second apprenticeship which i interned right after the first was a bit different. I never really spent time with anyone other than the time spent together while we milked. I focused primarily on animal husbandry, fencing, and tractor work while everyone else partook in the horticultural demands. The individual who i was supposed to be apprenticing, the farm consultant, was opposed to open communication for some reason thus I never really felt like a positive environment existed for me to express my discontent. Unhealthy and bizarre indeed. Bonds were not really made because our focuses were disconnected. As for the living situation all of us who resided on the farm rarely interacted. I would hang out with the farm owner and have great discussions but only a handful of times would i have dinner with the family.

Living and working together can either be a blessing or not. I think it’s the farm owner’s responsibility to define the atmosphere, be it daily lunches or opening up their personal space to the interns. Regardless communication is so valuable in these situations. Everyone needs to express their demands so we are all on same page. A healthy environment needs to exist for concerns or praises or ideas to be expressed. I walked away from both experiences with valuable information about human nature and the way individuals interact. It just has to be a right fit and farmer’s/owners who have partaken in internships or apprenticeships have a greater understanding of the dynamics of living and working together in my opinion. Thanks!

]]> By: fog http://civileats.com/2009/09/18/payment-beyond-the-dollar/comment-page-1/#comment-4075 fog Thu, 24 Sep 2009 12:21:05 +0000 http://civileats.com/?p=5064#comment-4075 maybe someone who has experienced an internship can address this concern of mine: when you are relying on your employer for lodging and food, and you are also working with them, doesn't being with them all the time begin to be tiring? And what if you don't get along, or worse, they are taking advantage of you. I know that you always can just leave if it is really bad, but that isn't as simple as it sounds, if you move out of your apartment at the beginning of the summer. so many things about working on an organic farm sound great but the living and eating together part makes me fearful. maybe someone who has experienced an internship can address this concern of mine:

when you are relying on your employer for lodging and food, and you are also working with them, doesn’t being with them all the time begin to be tiring? And what if you don’t get along, or worse, they are taking advantage of you.

I know that you always can just leave if it is really bad, but that isn’t as simple as it sounds, if you move out of your apartment at the beginning of the summer.

so many things about working on an organic farm sound great but the living and eating together part makes me fearful.

]]> By: Donald http://civileats.com/2009/09/18/payment-beyond-the-dollar/comment-page-1/#comment-4067 Donald Tue, 22 Sep 2009 21:49:46 +0000 http://civileats.com/?p=5064#comment-4067 I must apologize for my previous post. Poor grammar and open ended topics. What I was trying to express was that I believe in the internship/apprenticeship model for teaching our next generation of farmers. Whenever I do start my own operation I will rely whole heartedly on interns or apprentices for labor because, having worked this season on a farm with hourly labor, I have come to the conclusion that interns or apprentices are more valuable because they care and want to learn and want to work hard. That's exactly how I was in both of my internship and apprenticeship. It isn't just a job but a career choice, a lifestyle choice. I just think that more monetary compensation should accompany the learning aspect. Thanks! I must apologize for my previous post. Poor grammar and open ended topics. What I was trying to express was that I believe in the internship/apprenticeship model for teaching our next generation of farmers. Whenever I do start my own operation I will rely whole heartedly on interns or apprentices for labor because, having worked this season on a farm with hourly labor, I have come to the conclusion that interns or apprentices are more valuable because they care and want to learn and want to work hard. That’s exactly how I was in both of my internship and apprenticeship. It isn’t just a job but a career choice, a lifestyle choice. I just think that more monetary compensation should accompany the learning aspect. Thanks!

]]> By: Art http://civileats.com/2009/09/18/payment-beyond-the-dollar/comment-page-1/#comment-4046 Art Sat, 19 Sep 2009 23:19:13 +0000 http://civileats.com/?p=5064#comment-4046 My wife and I came to Hawaii 2 years ago to apprentice on a small subsistence farm. There was no stipend, or meal plans. We have our own cabin, and separate sleep space, and a few acres of autonomy. Solar hot water, and power, rain water catchment, and as rustic as you can get. We love it... I have a hard time imagining myself ever going back to urban life, with bills and bosses. We have been welcomed to stay as long as we like. I plan on doing this in Indonesia once we get our fill of Hawaii. My wife and I came to Hawaii 2 years ago to apprentice on a small subsistence farm. There was no stipend, or meal plans. We have our own cabin, and separate sleep space, and a few acres of autonomy. Solar hot water, and power, rain water catchment, and as rustic as you can get. We love it… I have a hard time imagining myself ever going back to urban life, with bills and bosses. We have been welcomed to stay as long as we like. I plan on doing this in Indonesia once we get our fill of Hawaii.

]]> By: Donald http://civileats.com/2009/09/18/payment-beyond-the-dollar/comment-page-1/#comment-4045 Donald Sat, 19 Sep 2009 05:41:00 +0000 http://civileats.com/?p=5064#comment-4045 i agree with you to a certain extent. i've partaken in two internship/apprenticeship positions and have thought much about the learning experiences and compensation. i believe in the model for it cuts down on a major cost of farming, labor, thus allowing prices to be lower thus allowing wholesome products to be more readily available to lower income families which is the first and foremost importance to me. during my first internship i went through a two week period dwelling on the hours worked, the quality of work i provided, and what i received in compensation. i came to terms and after the season came to realize that yes, it was worth the monetary sacrifice to partake in this internship. but here are some other thoughts. agriculture is a learning experience in and of itself regardless of if you are hourly help or an intern. yes the benefits of an internship includes housing on the farm, thus a greater connection to the enterprise, food, lodging and a commitment from the farm owner to teach. but it's a risk and to a certain extent exclusive. here's why. for an adult with even a small debt such as myself finds it to be a possible risk. a majority of my monthly stipend of seven hundred dollars went to paying off bills i had accumulated while 'finding myself' and realizing that i want to farm. some, who may possess a drive and great work ethics may not be willing to take such a risk. also, as you know, the work is strenuous and the hours are long which could lead some to think in terms of self worth and what have you. i believe that the only way to be a good farmer is to intern or apprentice. you can't learn good work ethics and everything else that accompanies farming in the realm of academia but i believe compensation should be a bit more so's that an air of exploitation does not exist. if i'm not mistaken little seeds garden in columbia county pays minimum wage by the hour and i find this to be the perfect example. they also provide housing and food i do believe. point being, for farming to be appealing to younger generations, and older, we need to make apprenticeships/internships more viable for individuals to understand self worth. heck, my boss last year cut herself a monthly paycheck based on sales and the amount of hours she put in and i find this to be rather awesome. she also sent me off at the end of the season by instructing me to look for internships/apprenticeships that pay a bit more because they are the more successful. i don't know if that is the case because i currently find myself in a farm manager position. regardless, when i start my own farm i will provide housing, food, and an hourly wage and i'm willing to make sacrifices to do so. thanks for the post! ps, my fellow intern last year withdrew her 401k to subsidize the stipend because living in boulder can be expensive. i agree with you to a certain extent. i’ve partaken in two internship/apprenticeship positions and have thought much about the learning experiences and compensation. i believe in the model for it cuts down on a major cost of farming, labor, thus allowing prices to be lower thus allowing wholesome products to be more readily available to lower income families which is the first and foremost importance to me. during my first internship i went through a two week period dwelling on the hours worked, the quality of work i provided, and what i received in compensation. i came to terms and after the season came to realize that yes, it was worth the monetary sacrifice to partake in this internship. but here are some other thoughts. agriculture is a learning experience in and of itself regardless of if you are hourly help or an intern. yes the benefits of an internship includes housing on the farm, thus a greater connection to the enterprise, food, lodging and a commitment from the farm owner to teach. but it’s a risk and to a certain extent exclusive. here’s why. for an adult with even a small debt such as myself finds it to be a possible risk. a majority of my monthly stipend of seven hundred dollars went to paying off bills i had accumulated while
‘finding myself’ and realizing that i want to farm. some, who may possess a drive and great work ethics may not be willing to take such a risk. also, as you know, the work is strenuous and the hours are long which could lead some to think in terms of self worth and what have you. i believe that the only way to be a good farmer is to intern or apprentice. you can’t learn good work ethics and everything else that accompanies farming in the realm of academia but i believe compensation should be a bit more so’s that an air of exploitation does not exist. if i’m not mistaken little seeds garden in columbia county pays minimum wage by the hour and i find this to be the perfect example. they also provide housing and food i do believe. point being, for farming to be appealing to younger generations, and older, we need to make apprenticeships/internships more viable for individuals to understand self worth. heck, my boss last year cut herself a monthly paycheck based on sales and the amount of hours she put in and i find this to be rather awesome. she also sent me off at the end of the season by instructing me to look for internships/apprenticeships that pay a bit more because they are the more successful. i don’t know if that is the case because i currently find myself in a farm manager position. regardless, when i start my own farm i will provide housing, food, and an hourly wage and i’m willing to make sacrifices to do so. thanks for the post! ps, my fellow intern last year withdrew her 401k to subsidize the stipend because living in boulder can be expensive.

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